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| Exeter Timetable 15/04/2014 at 21:34 #58940 | |
bandiez
62 posts |
Following on from my Westbury Commuter Hub Timetable I have just finished a compatible Exeter timetable, called Exeter Fictional timetable. It has been submitted waiting for it to be reviewed. Hopefully you guys enjoy it.
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| Exeter Timetable 16/04/2014 at 07:40 #58955 | |
jc92
3687 posts 
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this might want moving the the exeter area of the forum
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 16/04/2014 at 13:22 #58968 | |
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bandiez
62 posts |
Sorry, I just noticed. At least they start with the same letter ;). How do you move it, or does it have to be an administrator that does that sort of thing
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| Exeter Timetable 16/04/2014 at 16:02 #58985 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Moved to Exeter TTs.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 17/04/2014 at 08:43 #59021 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
bandiez, I'm looking forward to trying out your new TT as I'm playing Exeter right now. Would you please post when it has been approved to save us searching the downloads section? Thanks. Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 17/04/2014 at 11:11 #59026 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:bandiez, I'm looking forward to trying out your new TT as I'm playing Exeter right now.IIRC from when I last put something up for download you don't get any notification when it has been approved and made available so the only way to "save us searching the downloads section" is for bandiez to do the same - this seems a little unfair on him/her! “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 28/04/2014 at 13:03 #59674 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:IIRC from when I last put something up for download you don't get any notification when it has been approved and made available so the only way to "save us searching the downloads section" is for bandiez to do the same - this seems a little unfair on him/her!Well I disagree. I just checked the timetables download area again for Exeter without finding it. May I respectfully suggest to bandiez that he/she refrain from starting a thread about this TT until it is available for download? If the TT isn't accepted for some reason, a lot of forum members are going to waste a lot of time looking for it. Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 28/04/2014 at 13:13 #59679 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Just had a quick look - there are 6 timetables awaiting approval, none adhere to the naming convention as directed. So they will need to be resubmitted. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 28/04/2014 at 13:37 #59683 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Quote:It's been a long standing tradition on the forum that a thread is started about a TT when it is submitted for download.IIRC from when I last put something up for download you don't get any notification when it has been approved and made available so the only way to "save us searching the downloads section" is for bandiez to do the same - this seems a little unfair on him/her!Well I disagree. I just checked the timetables download area again for Exeter without finding it. May I respectfully suggest to bandiez that he/she refrain from starting a thread about this TT until it is available for download? If the TT isn't accepted for some reason, a lot of forum members are going to waste a lot of time looking for it. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 28/04/2014 at 14:02 #59686 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:It's been a long standing tradition on the forum that a thread is started about a TT when it is submitted for download.Well, in that case one must adhere to tradition. :laugh: If it's also traditional to be given the mushroom treatment as to if, when or whether said timetable becomes available I can understand why some might get a little pi**ed off. Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 28/04/2014 at 16:41 #59695 | |
Steamer
3985 posts
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Maxand said:Well I disagree. I just checked the timetables download area again for Exeter without finding it. May I respectfully suggest to bandiez that he/she refrain from starting a thread about this TT until it is available for download? If the TT isn't accepted for some reason, a lot of forum members are going to waste a lot of time looking for it." said: Quote:Work done by Bandiez: Many hours planning, researching (if applicable), writing and testing the TT.It's been a long standing tradition on the forum that a thread is started about a TT when it is submitted for download.Well, in that case one must adhere to tradition. :laugh: Work done by Max: Navigating to a few web pages. Monies transferred from Max to Bandiez: £0. And yet you demand Bandiez does more for you? Sorry, but as a TT writer myself the posts above really hack me off. Whilst I always welcome suggestions, bug reports etc. those requesting suggestions must always appreciate that this is done in our spare time as well. You can't demand that the world adapts to suit you. If you write a TT, you can advertise it how you want. There's no official policy on this. Personally, I advertise when I submit for the following reasons: Uploads are sometimes approved within the hour. If I'm away from the forum and it's approved, people know it's available. Moderators will sometimes leave a reply stating they've done it, or edit the original post. Failing that, I will when I next check. I quite like to build a bit of anticipation. EDIT: To avoid excessive clicking, a 'Remository newest' section is provided at the bottom of the main downloads page, which helpfully lists recent uploads. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 28/04/2014 at 17:16 by Steamer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Temple Meads, peterb, LucasLCC, lazzer, TimTamToe |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 08:49 #59878 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:I quite like to build a bit of anticipation.Make sure it doesn't backfire on you. If I was going to inflict a timetable on the people here, I think my first post would be to announce its completion and invite anyone wanting to play test it to PM me privately. After a few iterations, when they deem it sufficiently bug free I would submit it, and when it is accepted and available for download I would then advertise this in the forum. Last edited: 01/05/2014 at 08:50 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 09:47 #59881 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
" said:Quote:MaxI quite like to build a bit of anticipation.Make sure it doesn't backfire on you. How on earth do you think the whole TT writing and testing process works now? The only bit that may differ from your reinvention of yet another wheel is that the writer doesn't necessarily advertise that a TT needs testing, he/she may use their own network of testers. As for a "few iterations", you are probably out by a factor of at least 10 even for the simplest and most basic of timetables. I don't think you have any conception of all that goes into getting anything into a fit enough state to be released to the SimSig public - and all that the release does is to guarantee that things will be found which have not surfaced during the thousands of hours of writing and testing, most of which is done on a purely voluntary basis. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 01/05/2014 at 09:55 by postal Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 11:03 #59885 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Not having submitted my first TT yet, it's good to see how wheels work within wheels, but I still believe it's premature to announce the arrival of a new TT before it's been approved. I'm trying to visualize an obstetric analogy but the thought of it makes me want to puke.
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| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 11:31 #59889 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
I'm maybe about halfway through alpha testing a timetable which I am looking forward to releasing, along with a few others. There are probably a few reasons I can think of why I don't have a team of testers helping me. But I'll be damned if someone who doesn't know what they're talking about tells me what I should or shouldn't do with my own creation. If anything, it's tempting to hold off releasing it for a little while. Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 12:28 #59891 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
If you hold off releasing it, it'll be a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. My heart bleeds. Yes, why don't you have a team of testers helping you? If you can't find anybody else, PM me with a copy and I'll consider testing it and reporting back, warts and all. I'm still your friend. But have you considered that the person who appears not to know what he's talking about may be only one of an invisible group of people out there who might share the same view? That announcing the arrival of a new TT in the "traditional" way is a disguised ego trip? And what happens when you trip over your ego? You fall flat on your face. Quote: There are probably a few reasons I can think of why I don't have a team of testers helping me. But I'll be damned if someone who doesn't know what they're talking about tells me what I should or shouldn't do with my own creation.You got it all in one that time. Ignorami should be your most prized allies (I speak again from usability testing). Pull half a dozen people off the street and sit them down in front of SimSig. Once they are through familiarization, take those with the intestinal fortitude to remain and let them operate your timetable. DON'T let our resident experts get their paws on it just yet - they'll miss half the obvious bugs. But there are deeper issues here. Timetable writers, like other software writers (unkindly termed code monkeys), are often frustrated, unappreciated and underpaid geniuses - a bit like many composers and housewives. Compiling TTs in their garrets, they do it out of love, so they say - and love cries out to be requited, if not in kind, then by money. Here at SimSig there is less freedom and less appreciation IMO than in many other places. I look for comments in the Remository page for TT downloads and how many do I see? Hardly any. It must be galling to publish a new TT with a blaze of fanfare and watch as ignorami cluster around it like vultures and poke holes in it with their beaks. Restricted to producing TTs to run on someone else's sim, assailed by the FUD of not knowing when or even if a TT will be accepted, castigated for not producing documentation that ignorami can understand, it's no wonder to me that TT writers revert to invective when challenged. The Roman forum was a bit like our parliament - better for tearing strips off your opponent than dishing out genuine appreciation. Unfortunately, the medium of Internet forums today makes for even greater distance between people and even less appreciation. Romans, though didn't have Thank You buttons (though they did vote with black and white balls). We can't truly appreciate your great efforts until they become available, and even then we are liberal with criticism and sparing with praise. I wonder what difference it might make to feelings of self-worth if all TT authors were recompensed for their efforts? But it's time to return to topic. Last edited: 01/05/2014 at 12:33 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 12:51 #59893 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
" said:Ignorami should be your most prized allies (I speak again from usability testing). Pull half a dozen people off the street and sit them down in front of SimSig. Once they are through familiarization, take those with the intestinal fortitude to remain and let them operate your timetable. DON'T let our resident experts get their paws on it just yet - they'll miss half the obvious bugs.Not at all. Testing and usability testing aren't the same thing. In the day job I'm working on a software project which has received usability testing. It's also received general testing. In both cases testing was carried out by business analysts and favoured customers who we knew were experts and are expected to be heavy users. Why? Because we're not testing something destined for the public, we're testing something bound for a relatively small group of people. An ignoramus wouldn't really understand what the software was meant to be doing, or what the stuff on screen means. I'm not even competent to do the general testing even though I probably wrote most of the hard bits of code - I have no idea whether the data it spits out is actually correct, only that it looks like it might be. Similarly, there's little point getting someone who's never used SimSig before to test a timetable because most of the problems they come across won't be problems in the timetable, they will be problems caused by their own mistakes. Ideally a timetable tester knows the sim and the real location, to get the most from their input - not that other people can't provide useful information too, of course, but I think you have to know the basics of running the sim. I'm also speaking as someone who is writing one timetable, testing two others (chained, so edits to one have a knock-on effect on the other two) at the same time as holding down the day job and being a parent to two babies, so I am definitely aware of the benefit of having a test team! Nevertheless sometimes it's much easier to keep it all to yourself purely because you avoid the team management aspect of sending out the test requests and collating the info that returns. Last edited: 01/05/2014 at 13:41 by Forest Pines Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 14:11 #59897 | |
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jc92
3687 posts
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" said:Not having submitted my first TT yet, it's good to see how wheels work within wheels, but I still believe it's premature to announce the arrival of a new TT before it's been approved. I'm trying to visualize an obstetric analogy but the thought of it makes me want to puke.so you've never been to the cinema and watched an advert for a forthcoming movie which hasn't yet been released (potentially the editing and producing will not have been fully completed.)? most modern console games are advertised months in advance before the production of the game has been completed. " said: Seriously? So you've managed to patronise and insult both TT developers and Sim developers in the same day. congratulations on that achievement. I shall await critical feedback of the timetables I'm working on from yourself, however I'm doubtful you would be able to complete the first hour. theres all sorts of "complicated" maneouvres like changing locos, cutting portions and regulating involved! I actually have virtually no problem with the points that you raise consistently on the forum, some of which I agree with, some I don't, but what does constantly bug me is the attitude by which you conduct yourself. is it really that difficult to accept that someone else might be right besides yourself, or that the status quo may be so as a result of a organic evolutionary process, and as such, is perfectly acceptable to most users? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: whitetigger, John, peterb, Steamer, BarryM, TimTamToe, Joathan23, lazzer |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 14:33 #59900 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Non carborundum ignorami.
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| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 15:17 #59901 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
" said:Non carborundum ignorami.Max To have strongly held views even if they are contrary to most Forum readers is quite acceptable. To be personally offensive is not. I presume that it is fairly late in the evening in your part of the world when you posted this message. Can I suggest that next time you sleep on it before going off on one because other people hold different views to yourself. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 16:47 #59905 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts
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" said:Quote:I operate my timetables on a goodwill basis- I welcome bug reports, and will correct any inaccuracies users raise. The person reporting must, in turn, recognise that I have things to do outside SimSig, so updates might not be immediate. I never claim to be perfect.I quite like to build a bit of anticipation.Make sure it doesn't backfire on you. As I said above, if you write a TT you can use whatever testing and advertising policy most appeals to you. I won't demand you follow my way. For that reason, I take a very dim view of individuals who decide they're going to dictate how testing should be done- especially when they have no experience of writing timetables. Quote: I wonder what difference it might make to feelings of self-worth if all TT authors were recompensed for their efforts?Don't worry, I'm quite comfortable with my levels of self-esteem. A few thank-yous on the advertising post is enough for me. Even if I had the option of charging, I wouldn't exercise it. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 18:35 #59907 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
I don't know how you can write such a provocative post then at the end proclaim "it's time to return to topic" " said: Non carborundum ignorami.For the benefit of others, in english it means "don't let the imbeciles wear you down" " said: If you hold off releasing it, it'll be a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. My heart bleeds.Is it really? I'm sure it would if you knew it was an Exeter timetable " said: Yes, why don't you have a team of testers helping you?For reasons I would explain if I thought you were genuinely interested. " said: If you can't find anybody else, PM me with a copy and I'll consider testing it and reporting back, warts and all. I'm still your friend.With all due respect, you're actually not. So no. But thanks! " said: But have you considered that the person who appears not to know what he's talking about may be only one of an invisible group of people out there who might share the same view?No, because I don't believe in invisibility; I do however believe in logic, and that one person doesn't make a 'group'. Or that the above sentence makes sense. " said: And what happens when you trip over your ego? You fall flat on your face.Personal experience? " said: Ignorami should be your most prized allies (I speak again from usability testing).I don't know what you've been testing, but I feel for the developers. 'Ignorami' are not my 'most prized allies', and there's no reason I can think of why that would be the case. I'm most grateful to those who can help and know what they're talking about. " said: DON'T let our resident experts get their paws on it just yet - they'll miss half the obvious bugs.Just to clarify, you're not a resident expert. And even though you won't be getting your paws on my timetables yet, I'd be interested to see if/how you would fix some of the problems that have cropped up in my most recent testing. " said: But there are deeper issues here. Timetable writers, like other software writers (unkindly termed code monkeys), are often frustrated, unappreciated and underpaid geniuses - a bit like many composers and housewives. Compiling TTs in their garrets, they do it out of love, so they say - and love cries out to be requited, if not in kind, then by money.It's just as well then that I don't write timetables out of frustration, or a need for self-esteem, appreciation or money. Nor however do I expect to be patronised. But you talk about showing a lack of appreciation, which is interesting because you don't really seem (unless you can convince me other wise - and it would take a lot of convincing) that you have an appreciation for the program itself, or the amount of work that goes into developing any simulation, or as it appears now any timetable. It would be interesting to see you attempt to write a timetable from scratch, including all the prior research, and release it in the high standard that myself and others I'm sure expect from our own timetables. I think your epistemology would really be challenged. For reiteration: " said: To have strongly held views even if they are contrary to most Forum readers is quite acceptable. To be personally offensive is not. I presume that it is fairly late in the evening in your part of the world when you posted this message. Can I suggest that next time you sleep on it before going off on one because other people hold different views to yourself. Last edited: 01/05/2014 at 19:06 by peterb Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jc92, lazzer, wigley62, officer dibble, Noisynoel, DriverCurran, GoochyB, y10g9, TimTamToe |
| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 19:15 #59909 | |
northroad
872 posts |
Can one of the moderators close this thread now.....it has run it' s course of personal insults and is not contributing anything .....
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| Exeter Timetable 01/05/2014 at 19:32 #59911 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Thread locked due to derogatory postings.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: DriverCurran, northroad, BarryM, peterb, postal, y10g9, wigley62 |