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Platform Sharing

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Wimbledon > Platform Sharing

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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 02:29 #66290
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		Hi all, another one.

I'm trying to get a way to allow Platform Sharing to take place at Waterloo without requiring manual intervention, so far without luck. I'm wondering whether this is to do with how ACI is dealt with by ARS.

So the scenario is:

1T24 sitting in Platform 9. Activities are PS:1P24, N:1W21
1P24 to berth on top. Activities are PS:1T24, N:2P25

As I understand the activities, they should be in chronological order of what is to take place. Therefore, with the above, what should happen I believe is that 1T24 berths first, 1P24 should be allowed by ARS to berth on top which then forms 2P25. When 2P25 departs, 1T24 should be allowed to then re-describe as 1W21.

However what is actually happening is that 1T24 redescribes as 1W21 immediately, which tangles ARS up, as 1P24 complains that 1W21 is already in that platform. Cancelling 1W21's TD manually allows ARS to route 1P24 into that platform however.

I have tried various permutations of activities and reference trains, but I always end up at the same stalemate.

Note, doing the same thing at Victoria has not ever resulted in this problem in my experience. Of course, both of those sim's have the Platform description stacker that Wimbledon does not have.

Whatever it is, it results in ARS getting easily confused (how unusual...).

So is it ACI the issue? Or am I not programming these trains correctly?

Andrew
Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
Last edited: 07/12/2014 at 02:31 by kaiwhara
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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 08:08 #66292
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		As soon as 1T24 terminates it becomes 1W21, so try doing PS:1W21 on 1P24
Noisynoel
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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 14:23 #66297
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
As soon as 1T24 terminates it becomes 1W21, so try doing PS:1W21 on 1P24
Tried that, same result.
Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 14:40 #66298
mfcooper
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707 posts 		As far as I am aware, the ARS only looks at Train Descriptions. After 1T24 arrives, its description is in one TD berth, and 1W21 is populated in the other.

Perhaps adding *both* 1T24 and 1W21 into the PS: command might work?
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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 14:41 #66299
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		Right, following a discussion between TT Devs & Sims Dev's we believ you need to reference the PS to both the arrival and departure as the ARS should check both headcode berths, so in this case 1P24 needs to be PS:1T24; PS:1W21; N:2P25

Also worth noting is that the first train does not require platform sharing details
Noisynoel
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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 14:55 #66301
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		Righto, Will try that when I get home from work and report back.

Cheers
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Platform Sharing 07/12/2014 at 15:26 #66302
JamesN
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1608 posts 		Matt/Noel (or anyone with access) can you link this on the bugboard and assign to me and I'll look into it and the other platform shares when I get home
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 03:11 #66324
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
Right, following a discussion between TT Devs & Sims Dev's we believ you need to reference the PS to both the arrival and departure as the ARS should check both headcode berths, so in this case 1P24 needs to be PS:1T24; PS:1W21; N:2P25

Also worth noting is that the first train does not require platform sharing details
Right, Noel and James

I have tested what Noel has described above, using a test timetable with mock trains using the aforementioned headcodes, 1T24, 1P24, 1W21 and 2P25 on Platform 9 at Waterloo. 1T24 forms 1W21 still, 1P24 berths on top, shares with 1T24 and 1W21, and forms 2P25. No other trains run.

Using this exact scenario, and the activities described, I have again arrived at a stalemate with 1P24 stuck at W4 signal on the Up Main Fast, ARS advising 1W21 already on stretch.

Simulation Timetable is attached.

Cheers

Andrew
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 03:13 #66325
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
Matt/Noel (or anyone with access) can you link this on the bugboard and assign to me and I'll look into it and the other platform shares when I get home
Hi James

Just to clarify, these exist on a 2015 timetable that I am currently writing. They are not on the supplied 09 timetable, and so far I don't think I have yet got far enough through that timetable to have come across any.

Andrew
Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 03:42 #66326
John
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884 posts 		Andrew,

In the Marylebone sim you use the headcode nearest the signal first, so if Wimbledon is coded the same, 1P24's schedule should look like this:-

Shares 1W21
Shares 1T24
Next train 2P25

Only the second train to arrive needs platform sharing details included.
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 04:18 #66327
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
Andrew,

In the Marylebone sim you use the headcode nearest the signal first, so if Wimbledon is coded the same, 1P24's schedule should look like this:-

Shares 1W21
Shares 1T24
Next train 2P25

Only the second train to arrive needs platform sharing details included.
Hi John.

Just tried that iteration, same stalemate.

Is the way that TD berths are handled on Wimbledon something to do with it? I ask because Marylebone and the Victoria's all have A B and (Victoria) C berths in a stacker, whereas Wimbledon doesn't.

In the 2015 timetable the first Platform Share is around 10AM. Has anyone for far enough through the 2009 timetable to get any info on what happens on that timetable?

Andrew
Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 07:26 #66332
GW43125
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495 posts 		" said:
" said:
Matt/Noel (or anyone with access) can you link this on the bugboard and assign to me and I'll look into it and the other platform shares when I get home
Hi James

Just to clarify, these exist on a 2015 timetable that I am currently writing.They are not on the supplied 09 timetable, and so far I don't think I have yet got far enough through that timetable to have come across any.

Andrew
Oh no, seems like we had the same idea...
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 07:30 #66333
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
" said:
" said:
Matt/Noel (or anyone with access) can you link this on the bugboard and assign to me and I'll look into it and the other platform shares when I get home
Hi James

Just to clarify, these exist on a 2015 timetable that I am currently writing.They are not on the supplied 09 timetable, and so far I don't think I have yet got far enough through that timetable to have come across any.

Andrew
Oh no, seems like we had the same idea...
That's the second person who has said that about timetables I write! Bollocks!
Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 12:40 #66339
bfcmik
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100 posts 		Shouldn't 1T24 just be N:1W21 so it becomes 1W21 as soon as it arrives. The train descriptor then forgets that 1T24 was ever there.
Then 1P24 arrives with PS:1W21, N:2P25
Last edited: 08/12/2014 at 12:41 by bfcmik
Reason: bad typing :)
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 14:22 #66344
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
Shouldn't 1T24 just be N:1W21 so it becomes 1W21 as soon as it arrives. The train descriptor then forgets that 1T24 was ever there.
Then 1P24 arrives with PS:1W21, N:2P25
That is essentially what I started out with. Same result unfortunately.
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 16:46 #66351
GeoffM
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6377 posts
Online 		The first train does not need any special timetabling. The second train needs to list each of the possible TDs in the platform that it is due to share with. The order does not matter (in fact, for readability, listing the platform shares *last* is better).

Thus, if 1A01 arrives and forms 1A02, and 1B01 subsequently arrives (platform sharing) and forms 1B02 then 1B01's timetable needs to say:
N: 1B02
PS: 1A01
PS: 1A02

A/B/C berths don't make any difference. But, as noted above, the "wrong" TD will be in the departure berth. This is because ARS should never overwrite a TD, except itself if not in an R (arrival) berth.
SimSig Boss
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Platform Sharing 08/12/2014 at 23:54 #66370
kaiwhara
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587 posts 		" said:
The first train does not need any special timetabling. The second train needs to list each of the possible TDs in the platform that it is due to share with. The order does not matter (in fact, for readability, listing the platform shares *last* is better).

Thus, if 1A01 arrives and forms 1A02, and 1B01 subsequently arrives (platform sharing) and forms 1B02 then 1B01's timetable needs to say:
N: 1B02
PS: 1A01
PS: 1A02

A/B/C berths don't make any difference. But, as noted above, the "wrong" TD will be in the departure berth. This is because ARS should never overwrite a TD, except itself if not in an R (arrival) berth.
All of this is all very good and well, except it still does not work...
Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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Platform Sharing 09/12/2014 at 00:23 #66372
GeoffM
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6377 posts
Online 		" said:
" said:
The first train does not need any special timetabling. The second train needs to list each of the possible TDs in the platform that it is due to share with. The order does not matter (in fact, for readability, listing the platform shares *last* is better).

Thus, if 1A01 arrives and forms 1A02, and 1B01 subsequently arrives (platform sharing) and forms 1B02 then 1B01's timetable needs to say:
N: 1B02
PS: 1A01
PS: 1A02

A/B/C berths don't make any difference. But, as noted above, the "wrong" TD will be in the departure berth. This is because ARS should never overwrite a TD, except itself if not in an R (arrival) berth.
All of this is all very good and well, except it still does not work...
:S Seems to work for me! See the attached - open the saved game, take off the reminder, ARS should then set on top of 1A01/1A02.


[attachment=2816]PlatformShare.ssg[/attachment]
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SimSig Boss
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Platform Sharing 09/12/2014 at 01:00 #66375
BarryM
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2158 posts 		" said:
" said:
" said:
The first train does not need any special timetabling. The second train needs to list each of the possible TDs in the platform that it is due to share with. The order does not matter (in fact, for readability, listing the platform shares *last* is better).

Thus, if 1A01 arrives and forms 1A02, and 1B01 subsequently arrives (platform sharing) and forms 1B02 then 1B01's timetable needs to say:
N: 1B02
PS: 1A01
PS: 1A02

A/B/C berths don't make any difference. But, as noted above, the "wrong" TD will be in the departure berth. This is because ARS should never overwrite a TD, except itself if not in an R (arrival) berth.
All of this is all very good and well, except it still does not work...
:S Seems to work for me! See the attached - open the saved game, take off the reminder, ARS should then set on top of 1A01/1A02.


[attachment=2816]PlatformShare.ssg[/attachment]
Geoff, that is an interesting save. It brings up the train Ids but no actual trains.

Barry
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Platform Sharing 09/12/2014 at 03:59 #66376
GeoffM
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6377 posts
Online 		" said:
Geoff, that is an interesting save. It brings up the train Ids but no actual trains.
Correct - and I was going to mention it but forgot. ARS only works off the TDs, not the trains. I should also have mentioned that occupying track DA via F11 should be performed - this forces ARS to use the call-on route and thus check for platform sharing first. Not one of my best demonstrations :whistle:

More importantly though, did ARS set route into the platform?
SimSig Boss
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Platform Sharing 09/12/2014 at 04:12 #66377
BarryM
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2158 posts 		Yes, indeed it did.

Barry
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Platform Sharing 09/12/2014 at 04:37 #66378
BarryM
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2158 posts 		Geoff, I updated your timetable using your information, ran it and the reversing did not work. I have attached the timetable. Did I do it correctly?

Barry
[attachment=2817]WimbledonTestTimetable.wtt[/attachment]
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Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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