Replacing signals when a train is approaching

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 10:11 #62354
clive
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" said:
With AHBs there is usually a pair of strike in treadles at the extreme end of one track circuit, and either track occupied or one of the treadles down will initiate the sequence. Is there a block joint by your treadles?
In general the treadles are there to protect against a wrong-side failure of the track circuit, rare though that might be.

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 11:47 #62355
Muzer
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" said:
" said:

Rather wide of the mark there, I'm afraid - an ABCL is rather a different beast, in operation, to an AHB, and only really suitable for relatively quiet roads
Which reminds me: what's the difference between an ABCL and an AOCL+B?
Isn't it simply the case that an AOCL+B is an AOCL retrofitted with barriers, whereas an ABCL is one fitted with barriers from new?

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 12:42 #62356
Stephen Fulcher
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"Rare as it is", the possibility of a track circuit failing to detect a train does exist hence the treadles. It's also not as rare occurrence as people may think, although blips are more common than complete failures, and the less the line is used the greater the risk.

AOCL-B Clive is as Muzer states just an AOCL retrofitted with barriers. They were designed to use the existing crossing circuitry for the most part requiring few changes. The controls are slightly different than for an ABCL, but without the diagrams to hand I cannot remember exactly what they are. Conversion to a full ABCL would require a complete rewire and about three or four times as many relays.

Last edited: 01/07/2014 at 14:42 by Stephen Fulcher
Reason: Correct a spelling mistake which made the second paragraph nonsensical

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 12:49 #62357
Firefly
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Quote:
I think instead you have to install an ABCL (basically the same thing but with Obstacle Detection and ERTMS capable).
You're thinking of MCB-OD crossings which are indeed now being used where you would have otherwise used AHB's

MCB-OD's are full barrier crossings which are automatically initiated by approaching trains. They have obstacle detectors which will stop the lowering sequence if there is an obstacle detected and will automatically clear protecting signals when the barriers are proved down and the crossing is detected to be clear.

Quote:
(with, IIRC, the barriers dropping as soon as the ambers change to reds) if the signal is SPADed.

Close, the amber lights are omitted and they go straight to red flashing followed by barriers lowering.

Quote:

Which reminds me: what's the difference between an ABCL and an AOCL+B?

Isn't it simply the case that an AOCL+B is an AOCL retrofitted with barriers, whereas an ABCL is one fitted with barriers from new?
Correct:-

Following an Incident at Halkirk, a national programme economically fitted barriers to some AOCL’s. The new crossing type was AOCL + B. (When renewal of the AOCL equipment becomes due, the crossing will become an ABCL)

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 14:39 #62358
GW43125
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" said:
Quote:
I think instead you have to install an ABCL (basically the same thing but with Obstacle Detection and ERTMS capable).
You're thinking of MCB-OD crossings which are indeed now being used where you would have otherwise used AHB's

MCB-OD's are full barrier crossings which are automatically initiated by approaching trains. They have obstacle detectors which will stop the lowering sequence if there is an obstacle detected and will automatically clear protecting signals when the barriers are proved down and the crossing is detected to be clear.
I'm sorry, I thought I knew but clearly not.

**Crawls away and hides in corner**

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 14:44 #62359
Lardybiker
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As the previous discussion is about a crossing on South Humberside, could one of you who know the details of the operation of Woad lane crossing send me a PM or e-mail me as I'd like discuus it's operation in deatail to make sure the sim is correct.
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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 15:31 #62360
Forest Pines
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A pedant writes: we were discussing Great Coates crossing, not Woad Lane crossing.

(for people who don't know the area: the two crossings are on different lines but cross the same road, hence the potential for confusion.)

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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 15:40 #62361
Hooverman
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" said:
" said:
In the US and probably elsewhere they have traffic light preemption. This is an early warning from a level crossing (grade crossing) that a train is approaching and alters the traffic light sequence to release any trapped vehicles on the crossing. Not sure if that's done in the UK.

Bradford-on-Avon town council did a good one at Greenland Mills AHB. They narrowed the road in such a way that a car waiting on one side of the crossing would block the exit of a car coming the other way. It didn't last long.
It's called phased advanced. We have a hurry button on Crawley High Street CCTV on our panel 7 which when pressed causes the road traffic lights at the road junction immediately beyond the crossing to advance though the sequence to give the traffic coming over the crossing a green road traffic signal to clear the crossing. We also have a sealed key release to turn the road traffic lights off, only to be used in extreme circumstances of which we've never had to do that in the 13 years I've been at TBASC. I also believe Lancing has one for one of their CCTV crossings.

Getting back to N/S selectors we have one for Parsonage Road AHBs for trains calling at Littlehaven or not, set on "N" and the signal clears straight away set on "S" and there is a delayed clearance based on TC occupation.
A close up of Crawley High street controls showing the phased advanced button.


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The following users said thank you: Josie, GeoffM, Stephen Fulcher, maxand
Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 18:11 #62365
Danny252
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" said:
"Rare as it is", the possibility of a track circuit failing to detect a train does exist hence the treadles. It's also not as rare occurrence as people may think, although blips are more common than complete failures, and the less the line is used the greater the risk.
I would've thought the fact that some trains cannot be relied to operate track circuits is another major reason - some engineering equipment such as roadrailers falls into this category, and I recall similar issues with 142s in some areas.

Last edited: 01/07/2014 at 18:11 by Danny252
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Replacing signals when a train is approaching 01/07/2014 at 18:27 #62366
Stephen Fulcher
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Engineering equipment is not relied on to operate track circuits, although they generally do, but they will not normally pass over crossings in normal traffic.

Pacers technically can be relied upon to operate track circuits but are more susceptible to not doing so than other units due to their light weight and fewer axles.

I have known a whole HST set "lost" for rusty rails, and the leaf fall season can cause chaos with just about any type of train.

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