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Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 00:24 #128023 | |
GeoffM
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Muzer in post 128013 said:It's a common standard on phone apps where screen space is at a premium. Desktop versions of apps and websites, if they did switch to it at all, tend to be moving away from it as a paradigm for the precise reason that screen real estate is no longer really at a premium, and they do genuinely slow you down. Off the top of my head I genuinely can't name a single desktop view website or program that uses the hamburger menu.IBM, CNN, Amazon, Costco all use burger menus on their desktop web site pages. You can't assume screen real estate is not a premium anymore: think about those of us who cannot use multiple screens because of eyesight issues. Even the Windows start button is a burger menu! Muzer in post 128013 said: One thing you can do with proper menu bars which you really can't do with the hamburger menu is hold the mouse button on the menu button, drag the mouse down to the menu item, and release the mouse button. To open various menu items this therefore takes me fractions of seconds. Now I have to click on the hamburger, move the mouse to the right place, wait for the submenu to load, carefully move my mouse right (because of course submenu behaviour is infamously unfriendly for fast mouse movements), then move the mouse down to the item I want to click.You say you "[now have to] wait for the submenu to open" yet this is exactly the same in 4.15. I think you can configure it in Windows somewhere. Apart from the initial click, which I'll get to in a minute, the menu structure is actually the same depth. Muzer in post 128013 said: All to save at most a dozen pixels when I have over a thousand vertically.That's not true either, is it? Did you not notice the extra functionality? However, the initial opening of the menu could be improved. A keypress, or hovering over it. Come up with some positive ideas. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 00:48 #128028 | |
GeoffM
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BarryM in post 128022 said:Quite a number of my sims which I have licenses for are displaying "You do not own a licence"It looks like you've only done a partial upgrade as many of your licenses are still showing V4 instead of V5. is that because you have another machine with them on? SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 01:02 #128029 | |
TylerE
![]() 149 posts |
GeoffM in post 128023 said:Go back to what worked perfectly well for 20 years. That's the positive idea. So much of v5 feels like change for the sake of change. The opposite of positive change. See also the new timetable display, which takes up more space in both dimensions, and communicates information less effectively. You've tried to fix what wasn't broken and instead made it worse. Sorry if that isn't very positive, but it's the truth. SimSig is something I get much enjoyment out of, but after this update that is substantially less so. Any of these complaints I could individually "just get over it", but the sum total is rather death by a thousand cuts. Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 02:59 by TylerE Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Trainfan344 |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 01:05 #128030 | |
postal
![]() 5216 posts |
A quick note for those who do not use the default locations for sims and TTs. Updating the loader removes the Folder options (or at least it did on my system) and running the "Check for Updates" button after the new loader is installed brings everything down to the default Public Documents folder. The bespoke folders should be added back to the folder options list before running the check for updates if you wish to retain the bespoke settings.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 01:06 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 01:28 #128031 | |
Wells
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hi Geoff ive got v5.2 on my laptop and still cant play without the internet on do i have to do a lock on machine or leave it as it is with the ones ive got liences for Paul Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 01:39 #128032 | |
GeoffM
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Wells in post 128031 said:hi GeoffI will test this again tomorrow - been a long day. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 02:32 #128033 | |
Muzer
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GeoffM in post 128023 said:Muzer in post 128013 said:I mostly use my laptop to play SimSig, which last time I checked has only one screen. Amazon's menu is particularly long and something I would hazard is only rarely pressed. CNN's is only one level deep; it's more of a site map than a menu. Same deal with IBM. Costco's is horrible to use.It's a common standard on phone apps where screen space is at a premium. Desktop versions of apps and websites, if they did switch to it at all, tend to be moving away from it as a paradigm for the precise reason that screen real estate is no longer really at a premium, and they do genuinely slow you down. Off the top of my head I genuinely can't name a single desktop view website or program that uses the hamburger menu.IBM, CNN, Amazon, Costco all use burger menus on their desktop web site pages. You can't assume screen real estate is not a premium anymore: think about those of us who cannot use multiple screens because of eyesight issues. Quote: Even the Windows start button is a burger menu!And the modern start menu is a far cry from what it used to be, mostly because Microsoft recognised that the early start menu was pretty dreadful from a usability perspective. I remember myself mostly navigating the XP-era start menu by keyboard because the mouse navigation was so awkward. The modern start menu has no more traditionally-cascading submenus, and a search box just to name two aspects. Quote: Muzer in post 128013 said:My apologies, I had conflated this with other cascading submenus where you do have to wait. But my points about moving the mouse are still valid. Even in the browsers that have hamburger menus (I had honestly forgotten about these) the most useful/important functionality is at the top level of the menu.One thing you can do with proper menu bars which you really can't do with the hamburger menu is hold the mouse button on the menu button, drag the mouse down to the menu item, and release the mouse button. To open various menu items this therefore takes me fractions of seconds. Now I have to click on the hamburger, move the mouse to the right place, wait for the submenu to load, carefully move my mouse right (because of course submenu behaviour is infamously unfriendly for fast mouse movements), then move the mouse down to the item I want to click.You say you "[now have to] wait for the submenu to open" yet this is exactly the same in 4.15. I think you can configure it in Windows somewhere. Apart from the initial click, which I'll get to in a minute, the menu structure is actually the same depth. Quote: Muzer in post 128013 said:...No? The contents of the menus look the same as ever. If you mean the two extra buttons, they probably could have been implemented as small icons (a la the phone/printer icons) and saved creating the extra row. I won't begrude you adding those (not everyone can memorise hotkeys!) but I question the need for an extra row to accommodate them. If you're worried about people not knowing what they are, you could take a leaf out of the Ribbon's book and have tooltips instantly pop up with descriptions when they are moused over.All to save at most a dozen pixels when I have over a thousand vertically.That's not true either, is it? Did you not notice the extra functionality? Quote: However, the initial opening of the menu could be improved. A keypress, or hovering over it. Come up with some positive ideas.OK, positive ideas: 1) If you must use cascading menus, use an implementation that is more forgiving of indirect mouse movements to submenus. As it is, it's slow and error prone and generally disliked. I must admit this could well be a wine thing, I don't know if it behaves this badly in real Windows, but SimSig is the only Windows application with standard Windows UI elements that I use on a regular basis. 2) Put the most important stuff at the top level, rather than just copying verbatim the existing menu structure but hiding it behind an awkward button. The menu should be at least three times as long as it is right now — look at Chrome etc. 3) Always open the menu in a consistent location in relation to the hamburger, not at exactly where the mouse is. This makes it easier to think ahead with muscle memory before you've consciously registered where each menu item is. 4) Support the click-hold-drag-release paradigm. Right now the menu doesn't open at all until you release the mouse button. You should be able to click and hold the mouse button, then drag to the option you want, and release to select it. 5) Seriously, just add an option to put the menu bar back. Firefox has a hamburger by default but has an option to reinstate the menu bar for those who want it. Even in the infamously uncustomisable Chrome you can fake it with an extension (though this isn't ideal). 6) Have the button behave visually as a button. This is a minor thing but it makes it look visually amateurish that the button doesn't get a "pressed in" look when the menu is open. Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 02:35 by Muzer Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 04:30 #128035 | |
BarryM
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All fixed. Thank you.
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 05:06 by BarryM Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 04:39 #128036 | |
BarryM
![]() 2158 posts |
GeoffM in post 128028 said:BarryM in post 128022 said:No. Only one machine since Windows 10. Just followed what was on the screen.Quite a number of my sims which I have licenses for are displaying "You do not own a licence"It looks like you've only done a partial upgrade as many of your licenses are still showing V4 instead of V5. is that because you have another machine with them on? Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 05:07 #128037 | |
BarryM
![]() 2158 posts |
BarryM in post 128036 said:GeoffM in post 128028 said:All fixed, Thank You.BarryM in post 128022 said:No. Only one machine since Windows 10. Just followed what was on the screen.Quite a number of my sims which I have licenses for are displaying "You do not own a licence"It looks like you've only done a partial upgrade as many of your licenses are still showing V4 instead of V5. is that because you have another machine with them on? Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 05:46 #128038 | |
GeoffM
![]() 6344 posts |
BarryM in post 128037 said:All fixed, Thank You.I didn't do anything... SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 07:29 #128040 | |
Chrisrail
![]() 384 posts |
Meld in post 127997 said:To my eyes the Cardiff looks a lot clearer than the WorksopMeld Most things look a lot clearer than Worksop !!! Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:10 #128047 | |
Splodge
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Just had a bit of an odd one. I tend to put my PC to sleep in an evening, with SimSig still running (and saved 99% of the time!). About 8 minutes since waking the PC, without using SimSig at all, I got a message saying the sim hasn't got a licence, and will terminate, requiring a full restart through the loader. There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:12 #128049 | |
Dick
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Wells in post 128031 said:hi GeoffSame here, licences locked to machine but unable to access licensed sims without internet connection. Blue arrow and text confirm licences locked to machine when connected to Internet. Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 09:14 by Dick Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:23 #128051 | |
Hap
![]() 1016 posts |
Dick in post 128049 said:Wells in post 128031 said:Have you locked your licences whilst connected to the internet? You will be required to have an internet connection whilst locking licences, after that any licences that have been locked against a sim should work Offline.hi GeoffSame here, licences locked to machine but unable to access licensed sims without internet connection. Blue arrow and text confirm licences locked to machine when connected to Internet. Just to double check that you are locking licences via the new loader and NOT the old licence manager? Craig How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:30 #128053 | |
Forest Pines
![]() 525 posts |
GeoffM in post 128023 said:Muzer in post 128013 said:Just in terms of "things I have open on my computer right now" there's Slack (the Windows app version), Google Chrome, MS Teams (partially), Zoom (partially), the Azure portal, and it's part of the Atlassian house style, so JIRA, Confluence, Bitbucket, and probably other Atlassian products I don't use.It's a common standard on phone apps where screen space is at a premium. Desktop versions of apps and websites, if they did switch to it at all, tend to be moving away from it as a paradigm for the precise reason that screen real estate is no longer really at a premium, and they do genuinely slow you down. Off the top of my head I genuinely can't name a single desktop view website or program that uses the hamburger menu.IBM, CNN, Amazon, Costco all use burger menus on their desktop web site pages. You can't assume screen real estate is not a premium anymore: think about those of us who cannot use multiple screens because of eyesight issues. (please don't ask why I have to have Slack *and* Teams *and* Zoom all open at the same time...) Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:38 #128054 | |
Dick
![]() 387 posts |
Hap in post 128051 said:Dick in post 128049 said:Wells in post 128031 said:Have you locked your licences whilst connected to the internet? You will be required to have an internet connection whilst locking licences, after that any licences that have been locked against a sim should work Offline.hi GeoffSame here, licences locked to machine but unable to access licensed sims without internet connection. Blue arrow and text confirm licences locked to machine when connected to Internet. Yes, of course to both questions. Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:38 #128055 | |
Jan
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GeoffM in post 127972 said:nroberts in post 127971 said:GeoffM in post 127970 said:Sorry, I missed that. I've had a number of people try this and they're not getting an issue. We'll keep investigating - we may even just repackage the zip.nroberts in post 127968 said:Geoff, when trying to run the sim. I select it, hit next and I get the popup (I posted a pic a few posts up). If ignored, however it does appear to load up well. I haven't tried it with any timetable, but the display seemed fine.EDIT:To clarify, is this error when you try to update the sim, or try to run the sim? It might be an invalid timetable or something else in the timetable folder that Simsig mistakes for a timetable file and unsuccessfully tries to open - for a short while Simsig did tell you which file caused that error, but this got broken again soon afterwards, see #19931. Try moving all timetables out of the timetable folder, and then adding them back a few at a time to narrow it down. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 09:39 by Jan Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 09:52 #128060 | |
Dick
![]() 387 posts |
I will obviously get used to it in time, but the new timetable popup window display is going to be a bit of a challenge until I do. I play all sims without ARS (including 3 bridges) so rely on being able to absorb routing information for a train in a fraction of a second as I know exactly where and what to look for. It will take slightly longer to absorb the information until I get used to the new UI but I suspect it will be an improvement once I do.
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Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 10:45 #128068 | |
peterb
![]() 452 posts |
jc92 in post 128011 said:I don't understand peoples issue with the hamburger menu. I've been using V5 for a while so maybe it's just bedded in for me, but I didn't really notice a difference in user friendliness. we've now got the simplifier and train list quickly at hand where we didn't previously and everything I access off the hamburger menu has a keyboard shortcut available, typically F10, F11 and F5 for instance. I hardly find myself using it except to save a game. I don't understand how it isn't easy to use either. Maybe its just me.I agree - the menu is now only an extra click away. As a result I feel the whole box looks tidier, as well as the two new links. Also, adding the train status to it's timetable window is a handy new feature - potentially saving the need to use F2. The only request I'd make about this would be the ability to auto update the status information, which you can already do on the train list. Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 11:20 #128072 | |
Sidestick Priority
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I rather like it! I find the new UI familiar but refreshing; I like the improved consistencies across the platform. The larger clock is also a great addition to me. Not sure why people are taking issue with the new font, as on my small laptop it is much easier to read now. As far as the hamburger goes, surely it just comes down to preference. in Windows 10 it behaves exactly as I would expect it to. To take issue with software behaviour whilst running it through an emulator is hardly fair. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: GeoffM |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 11:27 #128073 | |
Ray
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Seems to be working fine. However, everytime I fire up the SimSig loader I am told I have an update. It seems unlikely that I need to update every minute. Is this an issue ?
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Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 11:32 #128074 | |
Meld
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Ray you probably need to press the delete obsolete files when the updater finishes it will keep offering the updates if it detects obsolete files. These are safe to delete as they are pre v5 versions of some of the 2009/2015 timetables that have been replaced Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
Loader V5 Released! 26/06/2020 at 11:36 #128075 | |
sloppyjag
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When you update are you selecting the "delete obsolete files" option. I was getting the same as you until I did this.
Planotransitophobic! Last edited: 26/06/2020 at 11:36 by sloppyjag Reason: Meld's fingers quicker than mine Log in to reply |