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| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 11:16 #28701 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I've read all the forum posts for this sim and appreciate all the work mfcooper and his testers must have put into it, but frankly the Perfect Beginners mode ended up as an unholy mess in my hands.  After a rough beginning, all went like clockwork until about 20:00 when the time came to fit the trains together like pieces of a Chinese puzzle. Somehow I got too many trains into P2, and maybe P3, but was only following their TTs. I didn't lag behind but even keeping the tight schedule required, I couldn't get the sequence right. E.g., train A at the deep end of P2 wanted to join with train B that was yet to arrive, yet I was told to put Train C into the same platform and of course as soon as I did that it stuffed things up royally. One of the problems here is that the normal get-out-of-jail commands such as pass signal at danger, reverse and shunt forward didn't work here for me. Any train I tried to reverse out remained firmly stuck at the mouth of the platform, fouling other lines too, so in the end I had no option but to remove it - a painless end. Oh, I did shorten one train just to get it in, but these don't happen in real life (neither does editing the TT), so I can't see why I should have to in this sim. You guys all jumped on me for not playing by the rules in Royston, so why can't I get any satisfaction by attempting to play by them in Lime Street? I managed to finish after removing about 3 or 4 trains and joining the others. There were several named BERF, yet when I tried joining one train at the right platform that wanted to link up with BERF, I got told it was not the right BERF. Also there seems to be one named BERTH, god only knows why. Someone recommended this as a follow-on sim from Royston, for beginners. I believed him. I really need to ask, has this sim been play-tested adequately? Has anyone managed to complete it at beginner level without needing to edit timetables, shorten trains, etc.? It would make me feel so much better if I knew others shared my experiences here. Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 11:48 #28707 | |
jc92
3701 posts |
" said:I've read all the forum posts for this sim and appreciate all the work mfcooper and his testers must have put into it, but frankly the Perfect Beginners mode ended up as an unholy mess in my hands.a bad workman blames his tools " said: overnight berth trains which have no further workings till the next morning and remain in the station " said: ive completed it no problems on standard, and am currently half way through a standard game with platform 4 closed to traffic "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 11:57 #28708 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
PS I only succeeded in using the sidings provided once, to move the last-in train out as it wasn't departing for over half an hour. I'm still unclear about when to use the sidings despite mfcooper's advice. It seemed the only way was to Abandon Timetable, move the train out, reverse or whatever to get it out of the way, then repeat it all to bring it back to the platform where it was supposed to go, and re-link it to its own timetable. Is that what the sidings are supposed to be used for? Maybe they're only there when setting a more difficult mode? Also those white arrowheads pointing left. Somehow I got through the whole game without needing to touch them. Still can't figure out when I'm supposed to use them. I swear that a couple of times an second train arriving at an already occupied platform, on time, had a departure time later than the occupying train, so I had no option but to route it to an incorrect platform (rather than make it sit there for 20 mins waiting for the other train to depart). This seems like bad timetable design. However, I can't provide facts to back me up yet, so it may have been entirely my own fault. Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:00 #28709 | |
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jc92
3701 posts |
the arrowheads are there for shunting stock and locos out without waking up edgehill box (this will be more relevant if a 1990s or earlier TT is added with loco hauled trains. as far as i remember no trains use the station sidings and on 5f54 uses the neck siding "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:01 #28710 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:ive completed it no problems on standard, and am currently half way through a standard game with platform 4 closed to trafficWell that's good news. Thanks for replying. So you didn't have to edit any timetables or shorten any trains? (being serious here) I guess I'll have to try it again and see where I went wrong. Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:04 #28711 | |
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jc92
3701 posts |
" said:Quote:i beleive there is one train that needs editing on the default timetable discussed hereive completed it no problems on standard, and am currently half way through a standard game with platform 4 closed to trafficWell that's good news. Thanks for replying. So you didn't have to edit any timetables or shorten any trains? (being serious here) http://www.SimSig.co.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=90&id=23839&Itemid=145 however it had already been done before i began play once this has been done and saved everything works fine all day "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:05 #28712 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:as far as i remember no trains use the station sidings and on(ly) 5f54 uses the neck sidingActually, right at the end of the standard TT, 2 trains joined in the neck siding finally giving BERF (so to speak), but that didn't pose a problem. It was mostly P2 that gave trouble, from memory. Last edited: 03/02/2012 at 12:06 by maxand Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:10 #28713 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I followed up your link, which certainly reminded me of a problem I forgot to mention. However the forum post seemed to leave unanswered whether the latest included standard TT had this fault fixed, and there still seems to be disagreement on the solution. I only just downloaded this sim. Should I need to edit the TT, and if so, how? PS I understood what BERF means, yet I was surprised to see one train's new working description named BERTH. Was this a typo? Last edited: 03/02/2012 at 12:18 by maxand Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:42 #28719 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I've played the default TT through till about 18:00 at night no issues that I could see. However I was under the influence and it was about 03:00 in the morning when I was doing this. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 03/02/2012 at 12:42 by headshot119 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:49 #28720 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
" said:I'm not able to answer definitively but quite often timetables released with a new sim use data from the real WTT, therefore for authenticity the timetable writer may decide to include any errors into the SimSig TT. It is for the signaller to determine if any trains need to be replatformed etc. Using the new F8 simplifier will help you determine whether you need to replatform by showing you er well simply the next arrivals / departures on whichever platform you select. I do find your original title of how robust is the sim, harsh and in some ways offensive even though I have had nothing do with the production of this sim or TT. Just because you seem to be having trouble getting to grips with the sim and its operation does not mean there is any problem with it and to question its integrity and robustness I feel is beyond the mark. If you are having trouble ask for advice and people will assist you, but to title a topic the way you have I feel is out of line. Having a title of "Having difficulty with the neck sdgs or platforming issues on Lime St, can you help" would surely have been more appropraite. All sims are vigorously tested as are timetables before being released. A lot of hard work and time by the developers, timetable creators and testers go into them, and yes occasionally there maybe a few minor clashes of a platform or a timing issue but nothing that is too difficult to overcome. As always I would like to thank the developers, timetable creators and testers for all their spare time and dedication they put in to making all of the fantastic sims we have on offer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: postal, JDC, Noisynoel, andyb0607, jc92, headshot119, GoochyB, Steamer, BarryM, welshdragon, MikeW, JamesN, delticfan, guidomcc |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 12:59 #28725 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:I don't think thanking your post is enough on this one.I'm not able to answer definitively but quite often timetables released with a new sim use data from the real WTT, therefore for authenticity the timetable writer may decide to include any errors into the SimSig TT. It is for the signaller to determine if any trains need to be replatformed etc. The last paragraph sums it up nicely for me. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, TimTamToe |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 13:28 #28728 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
" said:I do find your original title of how robust is the sim, harsh and in some ways offensive even though I have had nothing do with the production of this sim or TT. .......... Thank you for those kind words. As a new developer with a couple of small simulations very near fruition, you do wonder whether it's worth the time in trying to get it 'as good as reasonably possible' only to get slated by a very vocal minority who can't accept the odd little shortcoming in trying to replicate reality. I suspect this view might not be unique amongst the other developers. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 03/02/2012 at 13:34 by AndyG Log in to reply The following users said thank you: agilchrist, andyb0607, headshot119, jc92, sloppyjag, John, JDC, TimTamToe, JamesN, Sam Tugwell, ipswich, Meld, Steamer, guidomcc |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 14:51 #28735 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts |
It should also be noted that where timetable writers have used actual working timetable documents, these documents often contained platform and pathing clashes which would have to be worked around by the real life signalmen. All part of the fun!
Planotransitophobic! Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 15:51 #28739 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
Maxand, As one of the two people who created the timetable for Lime St and one of the team of testers, I have given up god knows how much of MY free time to provide you with something as authentic as posspible. I am the first to admit that I am not infalable and I make mistakes, and quite welcome constructive comments/posts stating what the problem is, if it is an error on my part then I will hold my hand up and provide a solution if needed. What I don't appreciate is people moaning that they can't understand something and slagging everyone off! If your not sure, read the manual, if your still not sure then a polite question will never be ignored on here! What you are getting is a FREE sim created by people giving up their FREE time, so don't expect the earth, unless of course you can do better.. if so please feel free, after all the software contained within the sim will allow anyone to write a timetable.. I echo Andy's comments, he is a new developer and has got a couple of cracking little sims in the making, it would be a shame if they don't get shared with everyone else because of one persons attitude. Right, I'll get off my soapbox and carry on writing a timetable for another developers sim... well, that's if I can be bothered! Noisynoel Log in to reply The following users said thank you: andyb0607, DriverCurran, derbybest, Steamer, Meld, ExDistrictDriver, welshdragon, Sam Tugwell, Phil-jmw, TimTamToe, delticfan, officer dibble |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 16:02 #28740 | |
agilchrist
258 posts |
I was speechless when I read Maxand's post, and that is rare.  You certainly know how to destroy people's enthusiasm in developing both sims and timetables, the quality of this product is far superior to anything else out there, there may be some bugs and TT niggles but as Sloppyjag pointed out nothing is perfect in real life in the first place, you have to just deal with things as they come along and not expect perfection. I'm off to London Euston now to catch a train to Crewe, and as most in the UK know Euston is completely screwed today due to the derailment of a freight loco, this is real life we have to deal with it, I only wish we could all live in a perfection bubble. Blessed are the true believers, for only they shall walk the Path, and they shall be welcomed unto the realm of the Ori and made as one with Them. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, Phil-jmw, northroad, BarryM, ipswich, derbybest, Meld, Steamer, officer dibble |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 16:54 #28750 | |
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Javelin395
274 posts |
The comments made by certain individuals on this forum just go to prove that you can't please all of the people all of the time !! Developers, please don't let the thoughts of one person who seems intent on complaining at every opportunity put you off your sterling efforts. The are many more of us that do appreciate what you do. You only need to look at the Karma rating to see that these views are not held by the majority of SimSiggers. I for one found SimSig incredibly difficult at first BUT I didn't complain or criticise others. Instead I applied a bit of perseverance and read the advice of people with more experience than me. Gradually it became easier but I still occasionally stuff things up. However, it is only a simulation so I can easily reload the previous save and start again. Quite frankly it really is about time some people either put up or shut up. If you don't like what you are getting for FREE or believe you can do better then YOU are FREE to do so. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, BoxBoyKit |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 16:55 #28751 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Quote:I really need to ask, has this sim been play-tested adequately? Has anyone managed to complete it at beginner level without needing to edit timetables, shorten trains, etc.?.Running it now. It will take me a few days but I'll let you know. Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 17:55 #28756 | |
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alan_s
152 posts |
I must admit I ran into problems around 2000 - I think on Platform 3, I'd already got 2 trains berthed, and one more wanted to come in, there wasn't room and its rear end was all over the points. But rather than slag the developers off, I decided to figure it out for myself, restored from an earlier saved game, and parked it somewhere else! Alan Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 03/02/2012 at 18:07 #28759 | |
Steamer
3997 posts |
maxand said:Someone recommended this as a follow-on sim from Royston, for beginners. I believed himI think that person might have been me, and in any case it's what I think, so I'll explain why. Lime Street covers a nice small area, which will fit on one screen (or very nearly). However, it has a very busy TT, so one can have the convenience of not having to scroll, while having the challenge of operating a busy service. As I recall, this was something you requested at some point. It also introduces a user to the challenge of operating a terminus station, and dealing with Fast and Slow lines, and will teach a user the skill of re-platforming, if they operate a more difficult scenario. Personally, I think it's a little gem of a Simulation- sincere thanks to Matt and everyone else who developed/tested this Sim. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 03/02/2012 at 18:24 by Steamer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, JamesN, Phil-jmw, Noisynoel, derbybest, JDC, officer dibble |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 04/02/2012 at 11:43 #28780 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
All right. Everyone please calm down. I apologize to anyone who found my original post offensive. I'd just finished playing it through for the first time and was less than enthusiastic about the experience. I was sincere when I asked had it been adequately play-tested as I found myself unable to complete it by simply following timetable instructions. There are one or two things one notices on playing it which are not covered in the documentation (see my forum posts), but it's no big deal. It was only towards the end when I found myself removing trains in order to join up others that I began questioning the validity of the timetable. No one wants to lose points unnecessarily, so I just wondered if the timetable had been thought through completely. Evidently some have no trouble with it, which is good news. If you read my original post you will see that I'm not blaming the designers nor casting aspersions on SimSig or any of its sims, I was just asking a question. Really, is it possible to complete the sim with all trains being dispatched to their correct destinations? I get the impression it is, so this heartening news has convinced me it's worthwhile to go back again and replay the whole standard timetable, this time with a pencil and paper handy in case problems recur. Either way I will post the results here, accurately and honestly. Then other newbies will know what to expect if they haven't tried it before. Last edited: 04/02/2012 at 11:44 by maxand Log in to reply The following users said thank you: postal, Temple Meads |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 04/02/2012 at 11:48 #28781 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
As Lime Street only has two TIPLOCs how can you possibly dispatch a train to the wrong location?
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BoxBoyKit |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 04/02/2012 at 11:51 #28782 | |
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agilchrist
258 posts |
" said:As you seem to be the Wiki guru; might I suggest you add to the documentation that "Players should expect to use some common sense when playing the sims" I think this might cover the lack of documentation you mentioned. Perhaps again I might suggest that you arrange a multi player game with an easy sim where you can work with experienced 'simmers' whereby they will help you; we are after all quite a friendly bunch and always willing to help anybody struggling on their new SimSig experiences. Happy to help drop my a PM if you want. Blessed are the true believers, for only they shall walk the Path, and they shall be welcomed unto the realm of the Ori and made as one with Them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Aurora |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 04/02/2012 at 12:05 #28784 | |
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delticfan
476 posts |
" said:maxand said:Totally agree with you Steamer. I really enjoy Lime St as a bit of a break from larger sims. I did spot a couple of probs regards platforming and after a bit of working out I managed to replatform the affected trains ok. My thanks to Matt also for a brill 'pocket' sim.Someone recommended this as a follow-on sim from Royston, for beginners. I believed himI think that person might have been me, and in any case it's what I think, so I'll explain why. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: AndyG |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 04/02/2012 at 12:46 #28791 | |
postal
5269 posts |
Maxand This is a really daft question, but at what speed is the sim running (F3, General tab)? There are lots of sims I can handle in real time but where I really struggle if the speed is turned up to a multiple of real time. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| I'm having difficulties understanding Lime St 04/02/2012 at 13:36 #28801 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:This is a really daft question, but at what speed is the sim running (F3, General tab)?Not a daft question at all.  Thanks for asking.When I began playing it it was at normal speed (till I got on top of it), then I found about 1.5 seemed about right. Mind you, there are a couple of flat spots where nothing much seems to be happening, such as about 5 PM (17:00). This surprised me as I would have expected peak hour (rush hour) at this time. I tried 2x speed but it was a little too fast for comfort. However, in the last hour and a half when traffic slowed down and trains were being put to bed, 2x worked OK for me. By that time, too, I was feeling tired and a bit discouraged by the problems I'd faced earlier, so was only too happy to see the sim end as fast as possible. I didn't make use of the Simplifier at all, but lots of sticky notes, including platform lengths for each platform, saved time, (as did macros I've mentioned elsewhere). What's your comfortable playing speed for this sim? ----------------- All this replatforming that others say they need to do bothers me greatly in Lime Street. Here we have 9 platforms, presumably packed with passengers whose last wish is to be told that train xxx will be terminating at a different platform than the one they are waiting at. Is it possible to complete this sim without any re-platforming at all? (I'm about to find out by replaying it.) agilchrist wrote: Quote: As you seem to be the Wiki guru; might I suggest you add to the documentation that "Players should expect to use some common sense when playing the sims" I think this might cover the lack of documentation you mentioned. I find that a very condescending statement to make to newcomers. To me, common sense is directly related to one's confidence, based as it is on cumulative experience. One can only apply common sense if one already has a firm grasp of the basics. From then on, it's a matter of experimentation. As an example, I applied plenty of common sense in my Royston tutorial to get a train from A to B, even if I had to break several rules to do it. Rules and common sense do not often go together, at least not until one has acquired considerable experience to know why rules are there. Quote: Perhaps again I might suggest that you arrange a multi player game with an easy sim where you can work with experienced 'simmers' whereby they will help you; we are after all quite a friendly bunch and always willing to help anybody struggling on their new SimSig experiences. Happy to help drop my a PM if you want.(added) By the way, for anyone else trying Lime Street for the first time, I notice that the grey arrowheads pointing right at the end of each terminating line have berths associated with them, at which you can interpose new descriptions. As discussed in another thread, this does not apply to the grey arrowhead pointing left at the end of the neck siding. Thank you very much. I hope to take you up on your offer soon. Last edited: 04/02/2012 at 13:51 by maxand Log in to reply |